New Personal Best

[hellman]

Brian Mason has been running them for a year now. He loves them!

 

[vortecd]

Brian Mason has been running them for a year now. He loves them!

He talks how the car hooks and thats why

 

[hellman]

So what do you think. JLT or no JLT? I was also thinking about making a small upper pulley swap. I really want my car to be as fast as a stock Demon on the race gas tune. Most of the stock Demon’s that show up to Brian’s track rentals run 9.90’s on the race gas tune. I was considering a 3.10 upper pulley, Demon injectors and 93 tune. I do not want to run E85 or race gas. I shouldn’t have any issues with 93 octane and that pulley. That is approx an additional 2 pounds of boost and 40-50 hp increase with tune. I can still run stock belt size because I have the slightly oversized TBA Machine belt tensioner pulley and idler pulley’s. That shouldn’t put much of any additional stress on parts considering the smaller gain. I would love to run a high 9 second pass on stock boost but I don’t think that’s possible without getting crazy with weight reduction or tuning the car on race gas or E85 which I don’t want to do. I am not interested in running any faster than a 9.90. What are your thoughts fellas?

 

[moparjim]

So what do you think. JLT or no JLT? I was also thinking about making a small upper pulley swap. I really want my car to be as fast as a stock Demon on the race gas tune. Most of the stock Demon’s that show up to Brian’s track rentals run 9.90’s on the race gas tune. I was considering a 3.10 upper pulley, Demon injectors and 93 tune. I do not want to run E85 or race gas. I shouldn’t have any issues with 93 octane and that pulley. That is approx an additional 2 pounds of boost and 40-50 hp increase with tune. I can still run stock belt size because I have the slightly oversized TBA Machine belt tensioner pulley and idler pulley’s. That shouldn’t put much of any additional stress on parts considering the smaller gain. I would love to run a high 9 second pass on stock boost but I don’t think that’s possible without getting crazy with weight reduction or tuning the car on race gas or E85 which I don’t want to do. I am not interested in running any faster than a 9.90. What are your thoughts fellas?

Once I hit 9.999 on stock boost with pump gas.
I will be adding an ATI 10% lower. While there I will pin the crank and that way the upper pulley stays clutched and no issues can be had by a hellraiser not being installed correctly.
That should get you there easily.
I figure pinning the crank is a safety thing so if I am going to do that then doing the lower makes sense. Much of the labor will already be done.

 

[moparjim]

Another choice for the lower could be the 7% lower from MMX that would give you about 2psi more boost and supposedly needs no grinding on the timing cover.
The JLT could give you some gains with a tune. How much is debatable but Brian likes his as you know.

 

[Speedy!]

You guys racing these cars on 93 octane are asking for problems. I hope you have $10K in the bank for a motor because that's where you can end up pretty quick. It's cheap insurance to dump 2-3 gallons of race fuel in the tank and never have to touch the tune or anything. It's just a safety net. You guys know I learned the hard way on this one I'm gonna start telling everybody I run 9.70s on "pump gas". E85 comes right outta the pump around here

Anybody talking about gutted cars blah blah blah isn't a racer. I quit listening to those folks a long time ago. If I'm at the track for a PB I want to give the car the best chance it can have and like was said if someone thinks they can do better, they're welcome to put in the work and go try. Most of that talk is from folks too lazy to prep the car for the race track IMO.

@hellman nice runs. When I was dialing in my 93 tune I ran 10.0 - 10.1 so you're right there. I had hoped I'd hit a 9.9x but never did. Ran a BUNCH of 10.0x though LOL. Our DA doesn't get super good here though so I just accepted it and moved on to race gas testing, and now E85 which is glorious

I run a JLT intake on mine. It looks good, isn't super loud but a bit louder than stock, and it makes me feel good since RE and Demon come with open element filters. However, I doubt you'll see any noticeable difference over the stock air box.

 

[BULL]

@Speedy!


You think a stock motor is at risk on 93??

 

[vortecd]

If you like the looks of the JLT then go for it. I kinda like the stock air box and it is sealed from the engine bay.
A guy I bought some parts from had a ported blower and pulley and e85 tune and he was told the JLT picked up 40hp on the dyno when they were tuning it. He did get into the 9.5's before selling it. It was his JLT I tried on my car last year which I ran slower. I'm sure there is a point where the aftermarket intakes make more power

 

[Speedy!]

@Speedy!


You think a stock motor is at risk on 93??

Based on logs from my 2016 MY on 93 I wouldn't race on it. I'll start a new thread later with some screen shots.

 

[jonx96]

@Speedy!


You think a stock motor is at risk on 93??

Bull all i have to say is I have techinically purchased 2 93 tunes. I have seen 14 stkr which set me to 0 deg of timing. This was early spring fuel. Octane booster fixed the problem so it was real knock. The next tuner I went with I told him as part of my flex tune I wanted the 93 portion very very conservative for the reason of bad 93 in spring and fall. Wanna guess what? 8Deg of stkr. I asked about it and was told it was normal. He could have prolly pulled 2 degrees and fixed the issue. But both these tunes were max effort 93 tunes. Our fuel quality here in the cooler months just isn't good enough. Also quality can change form pump to pump. So your max effort tune could go boom filling up at the right place.
You can now see why I tune myself....
E85 actually has less of a chance to have real detonation

Based on logs from my 2016 MY on 93 I wouldn't race on it. I'll start a new thread later with some screen shots.

I'd be happy to contribute some logs

 

[moparjim]

@Speedy!


You think a stock motor is at risk on 93??

On my car there was lots of nannies kicking in. Mostly for the cat threshold.
This would max my injectors and fuel pump.
@Hpindy added fueling and raised the cat threshold and now everything seams to be happy even in low neg DA.
This is with crap fuel in November. My car has no added timing from stock.
Even before the cat recall my car would max the injectors and from what I could tell after I changed to HPTuners my fuel pump also.
I think that is a bigger issue with a stock car than the 93 on a stock car.

But what do I know.

 

[Speedy!]

Bone stock my car saw all kinds of STKR on 93 and I was using Shell which is about as good as I can get around here. At the time I just thought "huh it's stock it MUST be fine". Little did I know. Now it's 5 years later and we've learned a lot and seems Dodge did too. Somewhere around 2018 they changed the tunes quite a bit and took timing out in several places so something was going on.

My buddy put it best, pump gas is for getting groceries.

 

[vortecd]

Bone stock my car saw all kinds of STKR on 93 and I was using Shell which is about as good as I can get around here. At the time I just thought "huh it's stock it MUST be fine". Little did I know. Now it's 5 years later and we've learned a lot and seems Dodge did too. Somewhere around 2018 they changed the tunes quite a bit and took timing out in several places so something was going on.

My buddy put it best, pump gas is for getting groceries.

I thought I remember you saying before the stock tune on your car and a newer one was different

I know of a '19 Charger that barely broke into the 10's stock

 

[hellman]

Brian has not added any extra timing in our tune. Fuel only 11.7 afr now. Car really liked the extra fuel! Previous tune had an extra degree of timing in a few specific places but the car didn’t pick up any so he put it back to stock timing. Cat temp threshold has been raised to 1975 degrees and that helped to eliminate the car wanting to pull any timing. Seemed like false knock anyway but it disappeared all together. The car was wanting to pull one degree at a few points during the run but no longer. Our pump 93 fuel down here is pretty good during the summer as we’re not running into any issues but the winter fuel is not as good. During the winter we’re adding 2 ounces of Boostane to half a tank (8 gallons) to mitigate poor fuel quality and that is working perfectly!!! The car is making the full trip without pulling any timing. Our trans tune is really good too. Brian has got this nailed down. Shift points are set at 6300rpm plus whatever else he has done with torque management. I noticed Speedy’s car before it let go was shifting at 6700-6800 rpm. This could have been part of the problem. Not sure standard Hellcat’s can last up there for very long. Have seen many rev to high and then letting go. Brian is very conservative and that’s why we’re not having any issues. I was thinking about that MMX 7% overdriven lower. 2 lb increase would be perfect. Tune on 93 and add 2 ounces of Boostane for insurance always. Car should be good! That would bet me a 9.9 surely! What say you???

 

[Speedy!]

So then you're not racing on 93, you're racing on 93+ Boostane. Why not just drop a couple gallons of race gas in there it's the same thing just without the nasty orange deposits in the motor. I'd go look at the pics Mike posted on the forum where it completely covered and caked up the exhaust valves and he had to use a grinder to get it off when he built the motor. If helping someone shop for a used Hellcat the first thing we're gonna do is pull some plugs and O2 sensors. If they're orange, on to the next.

Found Mike's post. I used to wonder if the orange coating was a big deal and wasn't convinced till I saw this. Mike used quite a bit of the product but consensus is that it's cumulative so every time you run it a little more sticks behind.
https://www.hellcatforum.org/threads/stock-fuel-rails-why-they-dont-keep-up.7748/post-162066

My car overshot the commanded shift points a couple times when we were dialing it in. That may not have helped things, but 6800+ rpm definitely wasn't something intended or repeated. I think 2 or 3 runs total. Coulda been enough to hurt it though, dunno, but all the knock it got bone stock definitely was a killer.

 

[hellman]

We just use it in the winter time but do you think that 2oz would leave the orange deposits? We’re not running that much. I have a buddy that used to put 16oz into a full tank and he had the orange deposits on his plugs. He did this to every tank of fuel he put in the car. I just thought it would take a significant amount of Boostane to do that. Like you said, maybe over time it starts to matter.

 

[Speedy!]

I tested Boostane once. 2oz in half a tank and my plugs were orange. At the time I wasnt sure if that was a big deal or not but decided I'd just use a few gallons of real race fuel instead. When Mike posted his pics I was surprised it was so much.

2.5 gallons of 109 race fuel in 5 gallons of 93 is 98 octane. I feel more comfortable with that.

 

[hellman]

I didn’t realize that. That sounds like a better deal especially if you don’t have any future issues. I don’t need any problems! My local race shop down the way and the track I go to has Sunoco 260GT+ (104 octane). That should work right?

 

[Speedy!]

I'm not up on the Sunoco products but I'd try to get unleaded if at all possible.

 

[vortecd]

I'm not up on the Sunoco products but I'd try to get unleaded if at all possible.

It is
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/260-gt-plus