Is Racing on 93 "Safe"? Not really.

[Hickster]

I do notknow what to believe till I speak with Herb Yancer from Sarasota. He will be working on my next phase. But, I used 110 and mixed 93 together and something really screwed up the car. Not once, not twice, but 3 different times. I never ran the car on straight 110. Didn't trust it. Come to find out the 110 was leaded gas. According to two different mechanics this should have never happened. Even if I ran total leaded 110. Effects were, burnt the fuel rails up 3 times, burnt up the converters 3 times, burnt up fuel pumps up 3 times, amongst other things. But 3 times and has not happened since I stopped using the race fuel. I still use the 93 BP from the same station. Cause?? Factory sent an engineer to over see the last two installs. I had numerous meeting with him and coming from up north in middle of winter and loves grouper sammy's. Can't find a better place, but he told me gas. In order for this to be covered under warranty,, take the K & N CAI off and install the factory one. I did and all work was covered. I then reinstalled the K & N. I do not know what to believe. Wished I had pulled a couple plugs.

 

[Speedy!]

Something else was going on with your car @Hickster.

 

[Hickster]

Ell Speedster,
That was what I was told by the other 2 mechanics. Thanks.

 

[moparjim]

I’m no long time E85 user and not defaming your post here Jim but I just don’t get the how going to 93 cleans things up from what I have seen of what plugs and pistons look like running E85 verse Gasoline.

Plugs on E85 for 2500 miles

View attachment 63426 View attachment 63427 View attachment 63428

Same plugs after just 1/2 Qt of Octanium Unleaded in 10 gallons of gas and 3-400 miles of straight 93 afterwards.

View attachment 63430 View attachment 63431

Car is sitting with 93 in it, in warm garage for 6 weeks since starting and look at the rust ring where the piston was sitting. This is gasoline not E85!! 99.9% of moisture comes from the air it ingested last not the fuel.

View attachment 63429

Lucas makes a stabilizer just for E85. It’s what my car was stored with for the entire winter last year. I sent the injectors out to ID to test and clean them, their spread was no little changed before to after. Me, I’m mixed in this whole thing of gasoline vs E85 storage thing. I mean how can the the fuel in a sealed tank absorb moisture from the environment it’s stored in when the tank is air tight sealed?? Especially if it’s filled to the brim with very little trapped air in the tank, don’t the fumes when filling push all the air out so what’s there to be absorbed?
All I know for sure is my plugs looked brand new until running gasoline, that sure cleaned them up??? 🤷🏻‍♂️

I was sharing info from a well known Ford shop as well as the tracks race shop. Which reinforced what I already heard/learned.

Maybe running gas to clean things up is the wrong term. More to flush out the E85 and any possible moisture it has collected. As it can be very harmful to everything it gets in contact with. From sticking injectors to rotting out stainless fuel pumps and eating fuel lines from the inside, both metal and plastic. So the, it's made for E85 so it is fine, isn't exactly all there is to it.
I'm sure the info I got was from running E98 from a can. Also most people don't race with a full tank.
There will always be some air, moisture as the tank is not completely full. E85 can start to go for a poop in a sealed plastic gas can in as little as less than a month.
Of course there are variables that change things.
I am just saying there are well known issues with running Ethanol in gasoline that seams to be often overlooked.
There was a very informative post from catdodgehell on the old forum a couple of years ago.
Hopefully getting people to inform themselves of things to do when running E.
He'll look at what you found out from using the Octane Booster. At the time it was safe. Untill you found out otherwise.
Even Simon PhastHemi used to send his injectors out every year to get cleaned and flowed. The alternative could be an injector issue that may cause a bigger issue because someone was not informed.
I personally think this may play a bigger role in some engine failures that turn into the tuners fault.

Just to be clear I have been contemplating running either E85 or a flex fuel tune in my car.
But I am willing to take precautions to be confident that my shit stays safe. Injectors will be cleaned regularly.

I found links from the post mentioned. Hopefully these clear up what I was trying to relay.
http://injectordynamics.com/articles/e85/

http://www.fuel-testers.com/2_precautions_e10_gas.html

 

[Mean Cat]

You're kinda missing the point. I don't wanna make this about who's "right or wrong" as that's not it. It's about educating people on what happens when certain decisions are made. Each owner will have to decide what's OK for them.

You can go back and find posts from me when I tested Boostane and my plugs turned orange. 2oz in half a tank is all it took. I don't ever remember that going away even after never running it again, my plugs always had an orange tint from then on that I remember. At the time I just said yeah it's orange so what, but race gasoline was a better option for me personally at the time so I never looked back.

We saw others post pics of their cats and O2s and they were also orange....meh OK it's orange so what. It might shorten the life of plugs, O2s, or cats but so can leaded race gas and those are all really just maintenance items anyway and eventually need to get replaced. If it happens sooner so what, the performance gain is worth it.

Then Mike posted pics of his heads. THAT is when my opinion changed. You do see the exhaust valves completely caked with MMT right? Like 1/4" thick or more? Now DGatzby shows his and the same thing. Replacing heads and exhaust valves is not a maintenance item and that also shows these deposits are cumulative over time. This is not something I would want in my engine and I'd never buy a car that had used it to any degree as a result. You've run it so long it probably doesn't matter now and you've not seemed very concerned so you're "OK" with it but I think it's important that others understand it's a thing before deciding to follow your foot steps there.

This thread was started because I guess there's some thing going around where people wanna say how fast their Hellcats are on "pump gas". I've gotten several emails and comments about it on YT. On there I just tell them don't race on 93 and leave it at that, not gonna argue on the internet ya know. Over here we're a closer knit group so I share a lot of details I don't bother with anywhere else.

You're right !

 

[BULL]

Your right !

*You're

You're wrong!

 

[Mean Cat]

*You're

You're wrong!

I was 2 times only.

 

[Mean Cat]

Fixed both.

 

[Mean Cat]

Blah, Blah.

 

[Mean Cat]

My 93 + will beat YOUR race gas.

 

[Hpindy]

My 93 + will beat YOUR race gas.

My pump gas is faster then your 93+ !

Sent from my Armor 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Hickster]

What I found out,, a fresh hali buster sandwich will beat the oct ang out of any pumpster. Mine not a clue but warranty and Dodge took good care of me. Now that damn headlight stuck on that bridge. Mad to the bone.

 

[Magnified]

Picture of the inside of heads from several tanks at the track (road courses, not 10 second runs, but 15-20 minute repeated WOT use), and some prior street use with 93 octane with and without booster. These were frozen in time after an engine failure, so it did run laps the previous day on a mix of racing gas/93, and a mix of Octanium/93. Try to ignore the metal shavings showered all over, that is from supercharger blades that seemed to disagree with each other at about 5200 rpm in 6th! Some of those valves are filled in, some are not, some of it is tainted orange. But, here is what they look like just plucked from battle. Engine had about 11,000 miles on it. The cause of the failure was a plugged left cat converter that is also pictured below.

I used Octanium off and on on the street and at the tracks in this engine. Because of a few recommendations, my new friend is Boostane and when available I will use higher octane gas to supplement my octane rating when lapping.
View attachment 63359

View attachment 63360

This is a great thread. Cant spare the time to read through, alas.

 

[hellman]

This is a great thread. Cant spare the time to read through, alas.

My 93 + will beat YOUR race gas.

I guess it’s time to start running Sunoco 260GT 100 octane fuel mixed with race gas?

 

[Magnified]

lol, hope my comment was not taken the wrong way. It IS a great thread. And I am just swamped, so I cannot even begin to read through the entire thing.

 

[DGatzby]

lol, hope my comment was not taken the wrong way. It IS a great thread. And I am just swamped, so I cannot even begin to read through the entire thing.

Your good.

@Speedy! thanks! I agree, it is one of our best threads!

 

[Mean Cat]

Your good.

@Speedy! thanks! I agree, it is one of our best threads!

I agree all good info

 

[Mean Cat]

My pump gas is faster then your 93+ !

Sent from my Armor 8 Pro using Tapatalk

I think were in the same boat

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

I think were in the same boat

Yea, I think most of us are, Challenger boats 🚤 , except for those guys in the slower 4 door ones lol

 

[vortecd]

Yea, I think most of us are, Challenger boats 🚤 , except for those guys in the slower 4 door ones lol

You guys can have your boats, I will stick to my 4 door yacht