Ceramic Coating and PPF

[Djason]

Probably going to get flamed, but I'm putting on my suit and here goes:

I use to detail....not as a personal business, but as a job through junior college, learned from a guy who previously owned a business. Family worked in various areas of car business and we all love cars and take care of them. So, I can respect time, attention to detail, and a beautiful and clean car. With that said, I find the price for the application and use of any of the CQuartz style stuff simply.....OUT-RAGEOUS! I've never had this shit done, and I probably never will. ESPECIALLY if the car is 100% garage kept and out of the elements most of the time (interesting the guy SpecialOps quoted "requires" this for his warranty....it's simple, to make his "warranty" work basically unneeded!). It looks pretty, but the cost/benefit is ridiculous. By all means, if anyone wants to spend their money on it, awesome, go for it. However, it's not going to be an overwhelming difference in the long run to anyone who properly washes and waxes and cares for their car on a regular basis. Plus, this stuff requires upkeep time as well. Furthermore, most people who have this done already take care of their cars well, or, get rid of them for the new coolest thing well before this stuff provides a benefit.

Buy a couple good wash mitts and drying towels, a decent car wash soap, a good polish and sealer, and use a little elbow grease every couple months and save yourself $2375-$3375.

I do like the PPF stuff.

Agree 100%...stupid expensive for sure! As a business owner myself I can understand "recommending" a maintenance program for the vehicles that have had the coating installed. To have a service every 6 mos, to detail and be sure the coating is working correctly with maybe some touch ups if needed, I get it. But not a clay bar, etc. type of deep cleaning to the ceramic coating. If the service is priced fairly for "normal" maintenance I get it. If they're recommending anything above just an application of reload or similar silica spray, with a good inspection of the areas treated for any possible warranty work, I'd get another opinion. Especially when this stuff we've spent good money on is supposed to last for several years.

I about fell out when I heard how much the Ceramic coating was going to cost when I contacted one of the local professional installers that I've known for many years. With that said, I would never spend $3500 for the Finest Reserve or $2500 for that matter for the Pro, which I had installed. That kind of money is for guys that just dropped $450K+ on an exotic without blinking an eye. From my understanding CarPro just went to the Finest Reserve not that long ago so the Pro is perfectly fine IMO. I can't justify the cost difference between the too. To say it's a sales gimmic, to get the extra chedder from customers, I won't necessarily go that far but I think the Pro is plenty good enough, not to mention the "lower" quality coatings they or others offer are damn good as well. Bill Gates I'm not.

I spent almost $2k for mine but he had the car for a week. I know the work involved in getting the paint corrections done...time = $$$. He busted his ass on the car going over every square inch to be sure it was as perfect as he could get it before the ceramic application. I've read up on the nano technology involved with these coatings. Cool for sure and do believe the protection is amazing. I'm pretty sure I can get 8-10 years from the Pro coating. It's a good weather car only. Not a DD. A play car really. Garage kept and pampered. Honestly any good quality Ceramic application, with a professional installer, would be good IMO. I just ended up using my installer as the car was at this shop getting a few other things done and he just so happens to use this shop for many of his coating installs. The biggest thing is the paint corrections before the application. As a matter of fact I was told they won't let an installer apply their product until the cars finish is at least 85% perfect. I gotta admit my installer was right. It popped, had a depth of color, wetness and clarity better than I expected from what I thought was a damn good factory finish to begin with. I was wrong. Parked next to the same color Challenger/Charger you can tell the difference. Is it a $2k difference? All in the eye of the beholder. One thing I will like...I don't have to spend hours waxing a few times a year. It's easier to wash and an occasional spray (like detail mist) with silica every 5 or 6 washes. Don't get any easier than that.

 

[PaVaSteeler]

Probably going to get flamed, but I'm putting on my suit and here goes:

I use to detail....not as a personal business, but as a job through junior college, learned from a guy who previously owned a business. Family worked in various areas of car business and we all love cars and take care of them. So, I can respect time, attention to detail, and a beautiful and clean car. With that said, I find the price for the application and use of any of the CQuartz style stuff simply.....OUT-RAGEOUS! I've never had this shit done, and I probably never will. ESPECIALLY if the car is 100% garage kept and out of the elements most of the time (interesting the guy SpecialOps quoted "requires" this for his warranty....it's simple, to make his "warranty" work basically unneeded!). It looks pretty, but the cost/benefit is ridiculous. By all means, if anyone wants to spend their money on it, awesome, go for it. However, it's not going to be an overwhelming difference in the long run to anyone who properly washes and waxes and cares for their car on a regular basis. Plus, this stuff requires upkeep time as well. Furthermore, most people who have this done already take care of their cars well, or, get rid of them for the new coolest thing well before this stuff provides a benefit.

Buy a couple good wash mitts and drying towels, a decent car wash soap, a good polish and sealer, and use a little elbow grease every couple months and save yourself $2375-$3375.

I do like the PPF stuff.

No roasting flames coming from my direction; I totally agree with you. My previous '15 was Pitch Black, and I used Collinite #476 to keep it hydrophobic. $20 a can. You could have brought ANY coated car next to mine, and whether you want to talk beading, or sheeting, mine did both as well as a coated car.

That said, for my new one, I decided to coat it myself. I've got satin vinyl on the hood, quarterpanels and fenders, and the idea of taping that off to wax/seal and maintain persuaded me to coat my car instead. I spent $200 on Gyeon MOHS, MATTE, and Booster, and applied it myself. I should get 3 years out of it, and consider it money well spent.

 

[MikeD1]

I agree 1000% with Tannehill - that is the most INSANE quote I've seen to date for this stuff. For that money, you could repaint 1/2 the car !

At least he honest enough to point out the extra care needed to maintain the warranty, most don't disclose the re-inspections/detailing etc. required.
If you are going to pay to have the car detailed every 6 months, there is no point to the expensive coating in the 1st place !!

The other consideration is - what if this guy goes out of business or switched brands ?? That happened in Tampa where a 'well known' detail shop (who was a vendor on the 'other site') had a blowout with CQ and switched to Gtech. Anyone who had paid a small fortune for the CQ were screwed as he would no longer honor the warranty & neither will any other authorized installer as they did not do the prep/install in the 1st place !!

 

[Skrelnik]

If you have Ceramic Coating and/or PPF what did you get, and knowing what you know now, would you get it again?
Am getting my kitty soon and these are a couple of the things I am looking at getting done first...
Thanks guys!!

I had a bad PPF experience, so my advice is there is only one thing that matters, the specific person doing the install. Do they hand cut or use a computer with specific software to cut the pieces. Stay away from the people who hand cut.

Ceramic Coating is awesome, and wheels and calipers are a must as well. This makes cleaning the car so easy. I would rather have my PPF money back to use on an audio upgrade, and then in three years have the bumper resprayed. Will never do PPF again due to the way it looks. You should go to a couple shops and look real close at the edges.

Down East Auto Accents in Fayetteville, NC did my PPF. All I know is its a 4mm film that self heals made by 3M. The hurricane delayed install for a month but he was able to go back and paint correct all the rock chips from the trucks up here in DC to the point I cant even tell where they were. He did the full front bumper, 8" on the hood, headlights, mirrors, door handle cups, rear bumper decklid, quarter panels on both front and back. Best 1100$ I have ever spent on a car. It washes so easily.

I had 3M as well, they make both SunTek and Llumar. I have Llumar. SunTek is a separate division within 3M, but the PPF is now essentially the same between these two brands.

Any chance your shop installed past the hood vents, or did they stop short. Curious how it came out if they went past the hood vents, if you they did, could you post a pic?

 

[why2kmax]

i had Cquartz done to the T/A because of the satin top. My car sat outside for over a year and is a daily and I drove it through winter so the durability of the satin paint etc was an unknown for me.

I wash it once a week with Reset and spray it down with CH20 or Reload every month. Even after 2-3 rain storms it still looks clean (except for the rear) In winter I spray the salt off best I can. Have the shop that did the ceramic clean it up in spring, rinse repeat. After 48,000 miles and 1.5 years sitting outside the car still looks like the day I drove it home. I didnt PPF and wish I did but didnt have the extra $$ at the time. However keeping a good distance from traffic in front of you has kept the chips to a minimum. If it wasnt coated, Id prob be washing it 2-3 times a week. For me its the easy button for keeping it clean and looking good. The maintenence on it is far easier than washing and waxing all the time. I used to love doing that but not anymore The bill was about $1500 for inside/out wheels and calipers.

 

[Djason]

I had a bad PPF experience, so my advice is there is only one thing that matters, the specific person doing the install. Do they hand cut or use a computer with specific software to cut the pieces. Stay away from the people who hand cut.

Any chance your shop installed past the hood vents, or did they stop short. Curious how it came out if they went past the hood vents, if you they did, could you post a pic?

Agree...stay away from the free handers. I'm sure some are better than others but I'd rather have a plotter cut my film OFF the car than someone free-handing it on it.

My shop did cut past the hood vents and wrapped as best they could but because of the movement of the plastic vents and the expansion with heat transfer it will eventually push up the edges of the film in a few spots. They had to tweak mine to have it closer to the edge of the vent with it far enough away so when the plastic expands it won't pull it up. Top and bottom left of both vents were the worst areas (see pics). After trimming those areas back...much better.

 

[Tannehill]

Question: If the installer brings the film a partial way up hood/around fenders/up from rockers/etc., up close to the vehicle will you see an obvious line where the film ends? My guess is yes?

 

[Djason]

Yes you will see the line. Would be best to do full hood, fenders and flares.

 

[parttimer]

I install both PPF and ceramics. I have 2 plotters for different sized films so I can do full fenders and hoods. I have TRIED, I menan TRIED to do both my Jeep SRT and Hellcat hood in full piece. (I used a full role of film, 50 feet or $1100!) I've full hooded Mazda's and Subaru's with no problem. The deep recessions around the vents or intake is an absolute nightmare. I have just started doing filming this year, I've done about 30 vehicles, many with plot cuts, many with hand cutting. my vents around the charger are similar to what has been show, the edges start to lift, there isn't much area to grab, the film is stretched trying to hold on. The key to hand cutting is the cuts need to be over voids and not on the paint. So the edges of the hood or fenders, you can freehand those with scissors running up the edge to allow you wrap the edges. I have full fenders on my Jeep and Charger and a bikini on the hoods. Bumpers get tricky if you want plot cuts, the Jeep is 4 pieces, the Charger is 3, so you end up with seams. Someone who bulks may be able to get it in one piece.
If you run a bikini line or fender tip, you will have a line, it's only noticeable in certain light on certain angles. The light needs to be reflected through the edge so it can be seen.
As for ceramic, anything over 2k is you being taken. Unless you have a showroom car that is never driven don't pay for 95-99% correction. It just won't matter. Sure it will look awesome at the shop, you take it home and put 5k miles on it, you're money is gone because your paint will pick up defects. You can pickup 70 or 80 or even 90% with a good one step polish and pad combination. Sure you can further refine it with a second step for more gloss. The average person isn't going to notice a difference the higher % you go. I do a full decontamination followed up by a one step polish then lay down a professional coating for $750 on a standard sized car. It's good for 4 or so years, even if you get 3 and re-do it, you'd be at $1500 to 2 surface reconditions and coatings compared to some of these outrageous shops. I know of one place that charges $1000 to ceramic coat PPF. No prep is needed on the film, $80 in product and 2 hours of your time, these guys are ripoffs.
I attached a few pictures, the paint was one stepped in the picture of the door pull. The others show bikini lines.

 

[SNeal5966]

Probably going to get flamed, but I'm putting on my suit and here goes:

I use to detail....not as a personal business, but as a job through junior college, learned from a guy who previously owned a business. Family worked in various areas of car business and we all love cars and take care of them. So, I can respect time, attention to detail, and a beautiful and clean car. With that said, I find the price for the application and use of any of the CQuartz style stuff simply.....OUT-RAGEOUS! I've never had this shit done, and I probably never will. ESPECIALLY if the car is 100% garage kept and out of the elements most of the time (interesting the guy SpecialOps quoted "requires" this for his warranty....it's simple, to make his "warranty" work basically unneeded!). It looks pretty, but the cost/benefit is ridiculous. By all means, if anyone wants to spend their money on it, awesome, go for it. However, it's not going to be an overwhelming difference in the long run to anyone who properly washes and waxes and cares for their car on a regular basis. Plus, this stuff requires upkeep time as well. Furthermore, most people who have this done already take care of their cars well, or, get rid of them for the new coolest thing well before this stuff provides a benefit.

Buy a couple good wash mitts and drying towels, a decent car wash soap, a good polish and sealer, and use a little elbow grease every couple months and save yourself $2375-$3375.

I do like the PPF stuff.

My only adder is, the CQuartz consumer grade seems to be really popular with DIY detailing......and that would be the only type of Ceramic coating I would consider (DIY I mean, not necessarily brand). Even then I am not sure I am sold on it.....simply b/c I don't really know what happens say 5 - 6 years from now when its old...how much is involved with being able to reapply?

 

[Skrelnik]

I install both PPF and ceramics. I have 2 plotters for different sized films so I can do full fenders and hoods. I have TRIED, I menan TRIED to do both my Jeep SRT and Hellcat hood in full piece. (I used a full role of film, 50 feet or $1100!) I've full hooded Mazda's and Subaru's with no problem. The deep recessions around the vents or intake is an absolute nightmare. I have just started doing filming this year, I've done about 30 vehicles, many with plot cuts, many with hand cutting. my vents around the charger are similar to what has been show, the edges start to lift, there isn't much area to grab, the film is stretched trying to hold on. The key to hand cutting is the cuts need to be over voids and not on the paint. So the edges of the hood or fenders, you can freehand those with scissors running up the edge to allow you wrap the edges. I have full fenders on my Jeep and Charger and a bikini on the hoods. Bumpers get tricky if you want plot cuts, the Jeep is 4 pieces, the Charger is 3, so you end up with seams. Someone who bulks may be able to get it in one piece.
If you run a bikini line or fender tip, you will have a line, it's only noticeable in certain light on certain angles. The light needs to be reflected through the edge so it can be seen.
As for ceramic, anything over 2k is you being taken. Unless you have a showroom car that is never driven don't pay for 95-99% correction. It just won't matter. Sure it will look awesome at the shop, you take it home and put 5k miles on it, you're money is gone because your paint will pick up defects. You can pickup 70 or 80 or even 90% with a good one step polish and pad combination. Sure you can further refine it with a second step for more gloss. The average person isn't going to notice a difference the higher % you go. I do a full decontamination followed up by a one step polish then lay down a professional coating for $750 on a standard sized car. It's good for 4 or so years, even if you get 3 and re-do it, you'd be at $1500 to 2 surface reconditions and coatings compared to some of these outrageous shops. I know of one place that charges $1000 to ceramic coat PPF. No prep is needed on the film, $80 in product and 2 hours of your time, these guys are ripoffs.
I attached a few pictures, the paint was one stepped in the picture of the door pull. The others show bikini lines.

Great post! Just like any industry, a certain person will try to upsell you on more, even if unnecessary, and why it's up to the consumer to do their research. One of my all time favorite quotes is from a 1980s Syms commerical, an educated consumer is our best consumer.

At least I can take away lesson, no more PPF for me and ceramic coating is awesome...and I should have drove 3 hours away to my audio guy who also does detailing, he is one of the few hard honest working people out there that will not screw you over, and stands by his work.

 

[Hickster]

This has been a very interesting thread. My head is swollen now. Didn't realize this industry is big and complicated. The idiot in Tampa more than likely needed to be run out of town. Good info.

 

[HarleyHetz]

I agree good info, and thanks for all of the posts guys. I may just skip the whole dang thing and wash my car like I've done for nearly 50 years...spend the money on beer instead!!

 

[Av8ing1]

Good thread! I'm going to go with normal washes with my car. I daily drive mine and plan on keeping the car for a long time. Damage like rock chips will happen and way worse. I'm giving up on keeping a show room finish, not happening. I'm all go and not so much show. All that paint protection cash saved can pay for a repaint at some point or a down payment on the next ride.

 

[Hickster]

So after reading 1.5 hours of mind twisting info bulking info I did not know. I need to come to Tex ass to get my car waxed for $2,500 for the next 3 years, By the time I get there from Florida,, I will need some kinda help. 6 speeding tickets, 9,000 love me bugs, 14 cases of beer, 16 prostitutes, not in correct orders, 16 before I get out of Pine ellas County,,, 12 lbs of shrimp. Man I am getting horney, thirsty, and hungry. Just spent $2,000 and have not left the drive way. I have spoken to a few persons in this business and friend El Del Ri Cola and they swear by this operation. Just spent last month's ss check. What wood the next exspend you ture check on. Correction paint and film or pedal commander??? A bit of price difference but $ fer $,, next move would beee?? Now paid fer the tow bill. What should my hard earned $$$ go tourds next$$$

 

[OLDBAYCRAB]

Washing a Hellcat in the driveway is like dancing with your supermodel wife. What's not to like?

FAIL.

 

[Skrelnik]

Good thread! I'm going to go with normal washes with my car. I daily drive mine and plan on keeping the car for a long time. Damage like rock chips will happen and way worse. I'm giving up on keeping a show room finish, not happening. I'm all go and not so much show. All that paint protection cash saved can pay for a repaint at some point or a down payment on the next ride.

After going through the PPF experience, I will never do it again. Waste of money as you get the bumper resprayed in a couple years, which I have had done in the past. This was a lesson learned experience for me, i did lots of research found a shop in a really nice town that services high end cars and they butchered the hellcat, CEL was on when I got there, one of the Hellcat side logos started to fall off on the drive home, and they also killed the battery by leaving the interior lights on for a couple days.

 

[Lone Star Redeye]

First vehicle wrapped but have others paint corrected and ceramic coated. Less than a 1000 miles on it so can't judge durability but the Redeye does cleans up easily with the wrap plus coating..... Something most installers will not offer if the film, coating or tints require warranty replacement is the "labor". My installer provides in writing.

 

[Decay]

The leading edge of the rear flairs on my wide body Scat got chewed up pretty bad in about 4 months and I had a few rock chips on the piece in front of the hood so when I got my new car I had the PPF installed on these pieces.
The Scat was ceramic coated and it held up well so I had this done to the new car also.
And mud/rock flaps.
.

 

[Hickster]

Jury ettes still out of doing mine. Need to find a super modal to wash 1st then maybe coating. I still have a 5 years of warranty to cover this sort of problems. I want even have the car that long. Nope, ain't telling.