Is anybody running R134 coolant with no problems

[Detroitboy]

So all my coolant leaked out over the winter. Obviously a leak from installing the IChiller. The dye has been put in to find it. But I do have a friend who can refill it with R134 which is much cheaper than the 1234 factory stuff, and does make the system run cooler.
Has anyone switched over? Whats the pros or cons?

 

[2ndgen]

Pros:

• it will actually cool better
• it is much cheaper--you can refill the system for $20 instead of $200

Cons:

• it's illegal to do in the US (at least for now, pending EPA changes maybe not forever)

I know of several people who have done it. All have reported zero problems and great results.

 

[Unholy707]

I run factory 1234yf and my chiller is COLD. The refrigerants are cross comparable, BUT. The pag oils ARE NOT. 10 year old AC compressor, ice cold air and chiller. 60k miles. Do as you wish

 

[Unholy707]

Never had an issue with the AC lines a year later. Coolant lines are a different story, but that’s finally sorted out

 

[2ndgen]

I run factory 1234yf and my chiller is COLD. The refrigerants are cross comparable, BUT. The pag oils ARE NOT. 10 year old AC compressor, ice cold air and chiller. 60k miles. Do as you wish

The factory fill PAG oil is Denso ND-12, which is a PAG 46 with some additives for R1234yf, but remains fully compatible with R134a systems.
Here is Denso's article explaining their line of PAG oils and refrigerant system compatibilities.

 

[Unholy707]

Hmm, interesting. What are the additional additives for?

 

[Unholy707]

Wait, the article says exactly what I just stated


While mixing A/C Compressor oils is usually not recommended, as it can lead to A/C Compressor damage and failure, the new ND-oil 12 can be used with both R1234yf and the old R134a type refrigerants.
However, once A/C systems have been upgraded to R1234yf type refrigerants, A/C Compressors pre-filled with ND-oil 8 can no longer be used in the system. When R1234yf type refrigerant comes in to contact with ND-oil 8, it will decompose and resin parts of the A/C system will start to deteriorate, so it is never recommended to use ND-oil 8 in combination with R1234yf type refrigerant.

 

[Unholy707]

When someone charges your system with 134, are they using that other pag oil that’s already in there? Probably not

 

[Unholy707]

Unless I’m misreading it, which is also possible. I guess it depends if there’s anything from the 1234yf (additives?) still in the system that could come in contact with the other pag oil, if it were used on a 134 fill. If you sprung a leak, you’re probably short on pag oil. When they evacuate refrigerant, most of the pag oil is forced to the compressor. I guess it’s still up for debate, I don’t believe I know of anyone with a failure using 134 either, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen over time. Did @16GoManGoHC2 have a failure before?

 

[2ndgen]

The only issue is when upgrading from R134a to R1234yf--then you need to worry about the system having the older type oil in it.

In the challengers the system already has ND-12.

If you are "downgrading" your system from R1234yf to R134a, you are the one charging it (cause no shop will do this for you since it's illegal), and you will not be putting in any ND-8. Factory PAG oil is already ND-12, so that's what's in the system--and if you need to add more oil, just use more ND-12 regardless of what refrigerant you recharge with and you're good to go.

 

[Unholy707]

That is very good info, not sure most would think about using the compatible pag oil lol

The only issue is when upgrading from R134a to R1234yf--then you need to worry about the system having the older type oil in.

In the challengers the system already has ND-12.

If you are "downgrading" your system from R1234yf to R134a, you are the one charging it (cause no shop will do this for you since it's illegal), and you will not be putting in any ND-8. Factory PAG oil is already ND-12, so that's what's in the system--and if you need to add more oil, just use more ND-12 regardless of what refrigerant you recharge with and you're good to go.

 

[covidcommander]

That is very good info, not sure most would think about using the compatible pag oil lol

Nope sure wouldn't if you're using that type of oil. I always heard it's ok to downgrade to r134a when you have a chiller.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Unless I’m misreading it, which is also possible. I guess it depends if there’s anything from the 1234yf (additives?) still in the system that could come in contact with the other pag oil, if it were used on a 134 fill. If you sprung a leak, you’re probably short on pag oil. When they evacuate refrigerant, most of the pag oil is forced to the compressor. I guess it’s still up for debate, I don’t believe I know of anyone with a failure using 134 either, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen over time. Did @16GoManGoHC2 have a failure before?

4+years 15,000+ miles running 134a on same compressor, 3 different chillers, no issues so far🤞🏻🤞🏻.

 

[Unholy707]

4+years 15,000+ miles running 134a on same compressor, 3 different chillers, no issues so far🤞🏻🤞🏻.

What are your thoughts on the pag oil debate?

4+years 15,000+ miles running 134a on same compressor, 3 different chillers, no issues so far🤞🏻🤞🏻.

 

[Unholy707]

4+years 15,000+ miles running 134a on same compressor, 3 different chillers, no issues so far🤞🏻🤞🏻.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

What are your thoughts on the pag oil debate?

I added 2 oz of oil on the first 134a charge with the first chiller change and never added any more going oil ever again afterwards 2 chillers and 2 recharges later