4.5L Whipple 'Murder Cat'

[WhipCat]

Most people are not out illegally street racing their car. Not saying I haven't done it but most are not doing it. My car with the whipple would run 149 almost every pass. I guess we will see what the stock ported S/C will run. The problem with the whippple is, it makes so much torque down low that you have to pull so much out on the launch that you can only run 9.50's at full weight. This is how I dove the car on the streets as well. No changing tires or wheels. The bigger cid will tame the launch down so you can apply more power down low. This is the facts. Thats why everyone who has built a 426 cid motor runs low 9's or high 8's with the whipples. It looks like the OP is looking to build a bigger cid motor so this will turn out fine for him. I'm not sure how many builds you have been involved with whip but I have been building cars and racing for 35 years now. So I guess you could say I'm an older guy with some experience.

I’m aware of the whipple frustration on launching. I’ve messed with it quite a bit, that’s why I was never able to get lower on my ET. I chased it for a little bit. But didn’t want to create a full blown drag car, because I street the car so much I want to continue to enjoy it. Chasing that .5 second was just not worth it to me, I knew the sacrifice it was gonna take and I decided to pass and stick to half mile competitions and street killing super cars.

I agree on allot of your points. The whipple is an awesome street blower, makes crazy power and gets that MPH up fast. For 1/4 mile, it’s all about the launch. You can have the fastest car at the track and race against an obviously slower and underpowered car, but if that car can launch amazing, the faster car will lose every time, that’s my point.

well setup drag cars can win races with allot less power. That’s why stock blower cars can be more effective, the lack of crazy torque on the hit and the ability for more tuning breakthroughs make the cars a better fit for faster 60’ Times.

curious to see the new whipple 3.8 when it comes out.

 

[WhipCat]

OkOkOk... lol. I’m going to agree with both of you 😊. I know Phil (WhipCat) and I’ve ridden in his car. It’s not a drag car. It is not set up to run 1/4 mile. It is a daily driver street car that makes a ton of power with the 4.5 Whipple on a 6.2 motor. When Phil towed all the way from Florida to run the 1/2 mile in Arizona with his dad, we drove that thing on a 250 mile round trip into Phoenix from Gila Bend to get Mexican food. The next day he ran a record (blower only) 183+ mph on the 1/2 mile. Strong pulleyed 2.4’s couldn’t even come close to that. The fastest we’re a full 15mph slower. That’s walk... not talk! All that being said..... yes the big Whipple is difficult to manage getting off the line without a serious drag setup. That’s why so many of them don’t show off on the drag strip as expected. But when you look at who the fastest 1/4 mile cars are in the world that are blower only (not spraying)....... all big Whipples. And yes.... they’re strokers (so you’re both right. 😎

One of the coolest stories about my car was that trip, to be able to Drive with 3 of us in my car, go enjoy that meal in Phoenix and hit that speed the following day at the race.
Super awesome. Shows off the exact reason I setup my car that way.

 

[Hellion]

Well for the record my car has been at 3 NHRA drag week events. The only change was the fuelling. Last year I took 3rd place at Dans MSHS race in VA. I was running 9.50's I then drained the E85 out and filled the tank with 93 gas. The car slowed down to the 10's for my class. That was the only change I made then drove the car to 4 tracks in 5 days plus drove 1K miles. With the cooled seats and radio jamming. My car is the farthest thing from a drag only car.

I just want to see where I can take this car with a ported stock 2.4. I have done all I can with the 4.5.

The new Whipple will be a game changer for sure.

 

[MurderCat]

The stock blower is very capable no doubt. Long term didn't feel sticking OEM was going to be worth it with my style of driving.

1/2 mile + 60-130 times show the 6.2/4.5 can be a killer combo on the street which is what this car mostly sees. Will definitely try to run a few times for a PB in the 1/4 and 1/2 though before building a motor etc. Probably should have waited for the 3.8 but they are taking their sweet time for HEMI's..dang mustangs

Don't have to worry about this ever happening using the whipple too. Think a few of those new billet plates had machining issues which resulted in catastrophic failure, big thread about that subject on the other forum. There are people on OEM IHI ported/plates with hundreds of passes so i'm sure they can work with proper tuning/maintenance/tolerances. Trying to minimize parts that could break this build.

Oh and street racing isn't illegal if it's in Mexico..

 

[WhipCat]

The stock blower is very capable no doubt. Long term didn't feel sticking OEM was going to be worth it with my style of driving.

1/2 mile + 60-130 times show the 6.2/4.5 can be a killer combo on the street which is what this car mostly sees. Will definitely try to run a few times for a PB in the 1/4 and 1/2 though before building a motor etc. Probably should have waited for the 3.8 but they are taking their sweet time for HEMI's..dang mustangs

Don't have to worry about this ever happening using the whipple too. Think a few of those new billet plates had machining issues which resulted in catastrophic failure, big thread about that subject on the other forum. There are people on OEM IHI ported/plates with hundreds of passes so i'm sure they can work with proper tuning/maintenance/tolerances. Trying to minimize parts that could break this build.

Oh and street racing isn't illegal if it's in Mexico..
View attachment 23651 View attachment 23652

Hey I know a guy who put a hole in the roof with his stock blower spinning so hard. I think the rotor is still in orbit right now.🤣

 

[Hickster]

I think at this point we need to call Don G.

 

[MurderCat]

Checking over the car, found three spots making contact on the rear FORE fuel line. Was starting to wear through a little of the braided portion near the bypass valve area/coolant fitting. Very minimal damage but glad caught that early. Adjusted the hose and wrapped fuel hose cut around small contact points - like spacers. 100% looks like shit but can't see it at all unless you get behind the S/C with a flash light.

Will be installing DEI 3000 Fire wrap over the fuel lines to protect against abrasion and heat. Not cheap stuff but gives peace of mind down the road. Very heavy duty and NHRA approved.

How do you guys have the rear lines routed on your whipple cats? Tight fit back there.

 

[WhipCat]

Checking over the car, found three spots making contact on the rear FORE fuel line. Was starting to wear through a little of the braided portion near the bypass valve area/coolant fitting. Very minimal damage but glad caught that early. Adjusted the hose and wrapped fuel hose cut around small contact points - like spacers. 100% looks like shit but can't see it at all unless you get behind the S/C with a flash light.

Will be installing DEI 3000 Fire wrap over the fuel lines to protect against abrasion and heat. Not cheap stuff but gives peace of mind down the road. Very heavy duty and NHRA approved.

How do you guys have the rear lines routed on your whipple cats? Tight fit back there.
View attachment 23669

over the rear axles and under the car. It’s a crazy tight fit. It helps if you have the rear end out of the car first

 

[MurderCat]

Ah still using factory lines feeding the rails. Here is a picture along with a slow-mo video to give a better idea. Hopefully no one else has any damage. One spot was a little too much for comfort. Laying right against the sharp fitting edge.

Not pretty but works (so far) If something looks off let me know.

 

[MurderCat]

More bad news: 2020 Season is officially a bust.

1. Needs to have the TCM updated at the Dealership. Tuner says update TCM only. Local Dealer says they can only do both which means would have to start completely from scratch on all maps as well as costing another $400 to unlock the PCM/Trans again thanks to HP Tuners.

The 'jolt' felt at stop lights will be fixed by Dodge's update apparently. Happens every so often, feels almost like getting rear ended. Car lurches. Fortunately the brakes hold it. Still odd since the car didn't do it stock but could be amplified by modifications? Don't really know.

2. Need to get into a HEMI shop to make sure everything is 100%. Having issues on Rev.9. Car keeps breaking up around 30-50mph before WOT. Something is wrong in the wideband mapping or has a mechanical issue. Logs didn't look right. I couldn't find anything out of place/leaks but also not ASE certified. Just a hobby.

Love the Hellcat/Whipple combo but this situation really blows. Frustrated to say the least. What a money pit.

 

[cole3986]

More bad news: 2020 Season is officially a bust.

1. Needs to have the TCM updated at the Dealership. Tuner says update TCM only. Local Dealer says they can only do both which means would have to start completely from scratch on all maps as well as costing another $600 to unlock the PCM/Trans again thanks to HP Tuners.

The 'jolt' felt at stop lights will be fixed by Dodge's update apparently. Happens every so often, feels almost like getting rear ended. Car lurches. Fortunately the brakes hold it. Still odd since the car didn't do it stock but could be amplified by modifications? Don't really know.

2. Need to get into a HEMI shop to make sure everything is 100%. Tuner is still having issues on Rev.8. Car keeps breaking up around 30-50mph before WOT. Thinks something is wrong in the wideband mapping or has a mechanical issue. Logs didn't look right. I couldn't find anything out of place/leaks but also not ASE certified. Just a hobby.

To do this have to put down a $4000 downpayment and leave the car at a HEMI platform only shop 5 hours away.. in late October for 1-2 weeks. Should have pulled out of the previous local hack first red flag. (It's a long story, made a post on the other forums) No reason should have to take it to a shop again after paying for the job to be done once already+dyno time. Don't really have another option and tuner recommends this shop.

Love the Hellcat/Whipple combo but this situation really blows. Frustrated to say the least. What a money pit.

Why does the cat need to have the TCM updated at the dealership? Is it because of the "jolt" if so, your tuner cannot address with the TCM tune?

 

[FFBOS]

Don’t let the dealer touch it. Your tuner can make the best of it.

 

[cole3986]

Don’t let the dealer touch it. Your tuner can make the best of it.

That is where I am going, avoid the Dealer like the plague, Murder Cat season is not over, let the Forum help, we know a thing or two here and have contacts.

 

[MurderCat]

Why does the cat need to have the TCM updated at the dealership? Is it because of the "jolt" if so, your tuner cannot address with the TCM tune?

Thanks guys. I don't think it can be adjusted in the tune based of what i was told by Dusterhoff LLC - "There is a tsb for the downshift you are feeling. There's an updated trans flash"

If could somehow adjust on the current flash would be amazing! Really don't want to buy 6 more HP tuner credits or deal with the local stealership haha - The service adviser is pretty mod friendly which is nice though. Was willing to do the current downpipe/o2 sensor recall+flash with everything installed

 

[FFBOS]

When they do this flash I believe the calibration is re-labeled. Guys who have made this boo boo with a tune end up needing a whole new pcm/Tcm tune with the new calibration base file sent to the tuner.

 

[MurderCat]

I understand that. Didn't realize there would be a tuning issue on the current PCM/TCM flash, would have got it done first thing before unlocking/mods. No one mentioned anything about updating until the jolt at stop lights after whipple/mods. Car didn't jolt randomly stock under warranty. Installation finished 7/27/2020. Tuning started 8/7/2020.

Wasted $400 on HP tuner credits+$1000 in dyno time and many hours of logging. Starting from scratch after everything this last month is terrible....100% sending the car to a HEMI shop to have them correct any sub-par work and finish dialing the car in.

Whole experience has been a nightmare all around thanks to one local speed shop. 'Shop' car life now..

Before vs. After of fuel line. Not 100% yet.

 

[FFBOS]

I understand that. Didn't realize there would be a tuning issue on the current PCM/TCM flash, would have got it done first thing before unlocking/mods. No one mentioned anything about updating until the jolt at stop lights after whipple/mods. Car didn't jolt randomly stock under warranty. Installation finished 7/27/2020. Tuning started 8/7/2020.

Wasted $400 on HP tuner credits+$1000 in dyno time and many hours of logging. Starting from scratch after everything this last month is terrible....100% sending the car to OST dyno October to have them correct any sub-par work and finish dialing the car in. No other option at this point besides a part out or selling it all together at a huge loss..

Whole experience has been a nightmare all around thanks to one local speed shop. 'Shop' car life now..

Before vs. After of fuel line. Will let OST adjust to their standards. Not 100% yet.
View attachment 23828

For sure pays to find the right people

 

[Marc W]

I don’t know if this might be relevant or not but..... one of the things that was noticeable when I put the Whipple build on the street was how that affects the converter. I was running a Demon converter to address the cam and SC changes but even that was noticeably tight. A lot more brake required to control forward push when coming to a stop and at idle. I wonder if a looser converter might mitigate the bump you’re feeling. You say you didn’t have the problem before the build and maybe the build just requires a different converter rather than messing with the tcm.

 

[MurderCat]

With foot buried to the floor car was still lurching forward every few seconds at stop lights. Could be the converter? On the power page HP/TQ jumped to 5X every few seconds- Never checked OEM.

Going to bite the bullet to eliminate variables and get the V86 recall done (PCM/TCM Flash+Downpipes/o2 sensors) - Another $400 in credits+starting from scratch on tuning

New plan is to get the car into Big Power Racing. -> Very nervous after the first place but seems Curt/Josh are stand up guys, will go with the recommendation.

 

[Marc W]

Yes.... sounds like the converter to me. You have a cam in it? If you have the stock HC converter that needs to change anyway. I would do that before spending money on flashing/retuning. If you have plans on building and making more in the future you’ll need a converter to work with that anyway.