Is Racing on 93 "Safe"? Not really.

[Speedy!]

I'm lucky I have 5 E85 stations within 2 miles of my house and 2 more within 5 miles of my local track, so it's convenient and easy to get and the brand I use I've only ever seen it get to like E75 which is still REALLY good and that was in the dead of winter. Between May and December it has always tested E85 or better and my fuel system had to be upgraded anyway as I was maxing out the stock fuel pump so it made sense for me since it was just some tuning (and eventually even bigger injectors when I found a deal on 1300x). At the track I use Renegade Race E85 in the car though.

If you wanna just run 93 with a little safety, I'd just grab a 5 gallon pail of MS109 or RM109 unleaded race gas and drop 2.5 gallons in to half a tank. That should provide enough safety for a 93 tune and you'd have zero to worry about with anything else.

Most tracks also sell race fuel on site by the gallon. However, most that I've seen is leaded race fuel like RM110+ or Sunoco 110. I'd use that before an octane booster but I ran leaded race gas mixed in here and there and after a year or so I did have some "glitches" with my O2 sensors. I'd get a CEL for cat efficiency a time or two that I had to clear after running the leaded fuel.

Now I'm curious if leaded fuel also causes build up in the exhaust valves

 

[moparjim]

I'm lucky I have 5 E85 stations within 2 miles of my house and 2 more within 5 miles of my local track, so it's convenient and easy to get and the brand I use I've only ever seen it get to like E75 which is still REALLY good and that was in the dead of winter. Between May and December it has always tested E85 or better and my fuel system had to be upgraded anyway as I was maxing out the stock fuel pump so it made sense for me since it was just some tuning (and eventually even bigger injectors when I found a deal on 1300x). At the track I use Renegade Race E85 in the car though.

If you wanna just run 93 with a little safety, I'd just grab a 5 gallon pail of MS109 or RM109 unleaded race gas and drop 2.5 gallons in to half a tank. That should provide enough safety for a 93 tune and you'd have zero to worry about with anything else.

Most tracks also sell race fuel on site by the gallon. However, most that I've seen is leaded race fuel like RM110+ or Sunoco 110. I'd use that before an octane booster but I ran leaded race gas mixed in here and there and after a year or so I did have some "glitches" with my O2 sensors. I'd get a CEL for cat efficiency a time or two that I had to clear after running the leaded fuel.

Now I'm curious if leaded fuel also causes build up in the exhaust valves

The leaded race gas probably would do the same regarding the buildup. Providing I am correct in my thinking it has MMT in it.
My opinion is there is no free lunch to be had here. Using octane booster can cause the buildup as would possibly leaded race gas.
Unleaded race gas is expensive. Especially up here. As I posted articles from Injector Dynamics and another E85 can be problematic if not cared for properly.
This thread is great in that it informs members of the issues of whatever one decides to use.
I remember awhile back PhastHemi posted about getting injectors cleaned and flowed in the off season to be sure no problems arise from using E85. A good idea as a stuck injector can make for a bad day.
Just my $.02 not meant to be argumentative just informative.

 

[Speedy!]

No worries it's all about discussion. I thought the leaded race fuels used TEL not MMT? On E85 I do run a tank of 93 through my car once a month just to be safe, but I've asked others and no one else seems to do that or have issues so I'm just paranoid. Better safe than sorry though IMO.

 

[vortecd]

No worries it's all about discussion. I thought the leaded race fuels used TEL not MMT? On E85 I do run a tank of 93 through my car once a month just to be safe, but I've asked others and no one else seems to do that or have issues so I'm just paranoid. Better safe than sorry though IMO.

I have known plenty of people to run e85 all summer then put some 93 in the car for storage in the winter. Our track only has leaded fuel at the pump

 

[jonx96]

@moparjim @Mean Cat no matter how much we argue in this thread you have both run great times for what have been done to your cars.
To each their own but discussion is how we all learn

 

[moparjim]

I have known plenty of people to run e85 all summer then put some 93 in the car for storage in the winter. Our track only has leaded fuel at the pump

I get it. But not unlike the use of octane boosters that we all thought was safe, until it was posted it may not be, or isn't. We thought pump 94 was safe until we read here it may not be or isn't.
Using E85 and not having an issue does in no way prove that it it not without possible issues.
There is plenty of evidence that it can be a problem if not cared for properly.
As with many things that we do, it isn't a problem until it is. My hopes in sharing the information helps someone make decisions so they don't have to start a thread on
"is it safe to use E85 as race gas".
As I mentioned I have been contemplating using it myself. When I discussed it with Nick at my track and he told me not to let the car sit with it and why, and remembering the articles posted on the other forum. I figured I would share incase someone was not aware is all.
Fwiw Nick is the owner of the track as well as the traction king and mechanic and crew chief on the tracks promod that holds the record as the fastest 4cyl set in Orlando in 2019. The other shop in question seeing as how you had a mustang and may know them, is Billet Pro Shops. So imo info from good sources.

 

[moparjim]

@moparjim @Mean Cat no matter how much we argue in this thread you have both run great times for what have been done to your cars.
To each their own but discussion is how we all learn

No arguing I don't think as much as trying to share info. Discussions like this are informative and helpful.

 

[moparjim]

No worries it's all about discussion. I thought the leaded race fuels used TEL not MMT? On E85 I do run a tank of 93 through my car once a month just to be safe, but I've asked others and no one else seems to do that or have issues so I'm just paranoid. Better safe than sorry though IMO.

I didn't realize they may use TEL. Yay we get to start another thread one day.😉

 

[vortecd]

I would have went went e85 15 years ago on my 87 mustang, the problem was I would have had to upgrade my whole fuel system but I had a cheaper option, methanol injection. Being I ran a centrifugal supercharger it works great with it. So my kit was $200 and with it made my fuel system think it was bigger. I was able to pull fuel out. I would have had to buy new injectors and pumps and may had to put bigger fuel line to run e85

On the Hellcat I'm just upgraded the fuel system and injectors so I can run e85. Not too many people running methanol injection on these blowers. The biggest issue with using race gas is the cost, $15-$20 a gallon and isn't readily available by me. I can have the race tune in it all the time and go down to the gas station to fill up. We are fortunate to have lots of stations around us with e85. And if I travel I can find where all the stations are at or switch to a 93 tune and go that route

 

[vortecd]

I get it. But not unlike the use of octane boosters that we all thought was safe, until it was posted it may not be, or isn't. We thought pump 94 was safe until we read here it may not be or isn't.
Using E85 and not having an issue does in no way prove that it it not without possible issues.
There is plenty of evidence that it can be a problem if not cared for properly.
As with many things that we do, it isn't a problem until it is. My hopes in sharing the information helps someone make decisions so they don't have to start a thread on
"is it safe to use E85 as race gas".
As I mentioned I have been contemplating using it myself. When I discussed it with Nick at my track and he told me not to let the car sit with it and why, and remembering the articles posted on the other forum. I figured I would share incase someone was not aware is all.
Fwiw Nick is the owner of the track as well as the traction king and mechanic and crew chief on the tracks promod that holds the record as the fastest 4cyl set in Orlando in 2019. The other shop in question seeing as how you had a mustang and may know them, is Billet Pro Shops. So imo info from good sources.

That is the key "let it sit" my car doesn't sit more then a couple of days and it won't have e85 in it when it is stored for the winter. There have been plenty of people around us that have been using it for a long time so I don't think of it as a new fuel, just I have not run it before

 

[Speedy!]

I have seen some strange things happen with E85, but it was on older cars with fuel systems not setup for it. One was a Mustang at the TX mile. Car ran awesome, then didn't. They had pit next to us so I went over to see if I could lend a hand and watched the guy pull out a nasty fuel pump sock (black). The E85 had eaten all the rubber fuel lines in the tank and made them soft.

The other was a Twin Turbo Challenger way back before there was even the thought of a Hellcat. Guy let E85 set over the winter and in spring it wouldn't fire. He posted pics on our then forum of the gelled up E85 all over the pumps.

So yes, you do have to make sure you do some basic things when using it. But they're really basic in these modern cars and juice definitely worth the squeeze IMO.

My Flex Fuel tune for when it has full E85 in it has more mojo than my race gas 109 octane tune had in it. I actually tested it with WAY more but backed it down because I didn't need that much for the street.

I wasn't always a believer. Curt and I had many debates and for me it really came down to cost of fuel system, but again once you're at that point it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Speedy!]

That is the key "let it sit" my car doesn't sit more then a couple of days and it won't have e85 in it when it is stored for the winter. There have been plenty of people around us that have been using it for a long time so I don't think of it as a new fuel, just I have not run it before

Mine has sat for two weeks with E85 in it. No problems. I wouldn't want it to set longer than that personally and honestly was a bit nervous when it did. Weather was crap so is what it is but I make it a point to drive mine at least once a week anyway.

 

[BULL]

I try to start mine weekly, but haven't been on top of it lately... (even without considering E85)

 

[jonx96]

That is the key "let it sit" my car doesn't sit more then a couple of days and it won't have e85 in it when it is stored for the winter. There have been plenty of people around us that have been using it for a long time so I don't think of it as a new fuel, just I have not run it before

I think our track adapted e85 at a pretty strong rate because of Eric (Horsepower innovations). Dude is best around with a carb and e85

 

[Mean Cat]

@moparjim @Mean Cat no matter how much we argue in this thread you have both run great times for what have been done to your cars.
To each their own but discussion is how we all learn

Thanks Jon, I agree, I didn't mean to come off as arguing just defending my way, but I know my way isn't always the right way or the only way.

 

[jonx96]

I try to start mine weekly, but haven't been on top of it lately... (even without considering E85)

This could be another thread as well. If everything doesn't get to a proper operating temp you are building a lot of moisture

 

[Hickster]

The problems I had with fuel rails, converters, fuel pumps, and the likes. El Speeders mentioned to me with the 3 occurring, 3 times being replaced, that the race fuel, 110 leaded, did not play a factor. I spoke with 2 or 3 other high performance mechanics. They said the same thing. I could run 100% 110 tane and not affect the blending of 93 1/2 was having with 110 leaded.. I tend to believe these gentlemen of their evaluation. An ongoing problem from else where. The season and the reason to send an engineer down 3 different times to evaluate. Just happens to be from NJ in January for prime time grouper sammys and oysters. I wood have done the same. I met with this gentleman numerous times. He did not have an incentive cause of the problem. Gas, leaded vs non, leaded. I guess it is a toss of the coin. Speaking of grouper sandwiches,,, tomorrow, yepper. In the mid 80s, so cold beer will be on the check.

 

[DGatzby]

You guys realize that basically I burn a gallon on every lap at Road America and a couple for every three laps at BIR? I sure hope that racing gas is more near $10/gal than $20/gal! Because I have made my choice for my new engine.

 

[BULL]

This could be another thread as well. If everything doesn't get to a proper operating temp you are building a lot of moisture

I get both oil/water up to at least 200F for this very reason, also a couple of "BRRRRTS" for the neighbors...

 

[jonx96]

I get both oil/water up to at least 200F for this very reason, also a couple of "BRRRRTS" for the neighbors...

Well ya the revs clear the moisture out of the exhaust 😂