DRAGRCR RED EYES

[DGatzby]

I could have put some much less expensive Phillips units on with larger tires on my ‘15, if they would have told us ( @DodgeCares ) they totally ripped the program out of the Demon and gave us something else and we now have a problematic farting and hesitating POS that shifts slower than my ‘12 Tahoe with a crappy 6 speed old style tranny.

@DodgeCares WHEN DO WE GET A REAL DEMON MOTOR IN THE HELLCAT LIKE WE WERE PROMISED IN YOUR LITERATURE? When are you really going to help us on this Forum? Let’s get this issue escalated to someone who can do something! Like NOW, BEFORE WE GET EMBARRASSED BY OTHER HELLCATS, FORDS AND CHEVROLET PRODUCTS. You have been called out previously on this thread and have conveniently ignored us. We are the people out there showing everyone how these work on the tracks and strips.

I FOR ONE WILL SELL THIS THING IN A MINUTE IN A YEAR OR TWO AND COULD BE INTO AN UPGRADED MODEL C8 IN A HEARTBEAT, AND NEVER LOOK BACK. SCREW SOME OF US AND WE GET REAL PISSED AND NEVER FORGET.

 

[Maxboost]

6300 is the rpm limit for a RE.

6500 is the fuel cut and 6250 6300 is where my Redeye shifted stock.

 

[moparjim]

At the track on Sunday there was a Redeye there. So I made a point of watching a couple of his passes.
His car did the hiccup on all the passes I saw.
@DGatzby fwiw his car was slower than mine. he had skinnies and I was on just drag radials.
Probably mostly due to his requiring a bit of driver mod but still.

 

[DGatzby]

At the track on Sunday there was a Redeye there. So I made a point of watching a couple of his passes.
His car did the hiccup on all the passes I saw.
@DGatzby fwiw his car was slower than mine. he had skinnies and I was on just drag radials.
Probably mostly due to his requiring a bit of driver mod but still.

Now I understand better. Last year I compared the Redeye sector times at BIR with the previous Hellcat. Easy, same driver, home track. Especially looking at the long straight because I was interested in how it was accelerating. You guys are right on it, the RE DID NOT perform any better than my good running ‘15 did. I figured since it only had 1500 miles it needed more break in. Well, we shall see what it does Monday.

 

[DRAGRCR]

X

 

[Speedy!]

6500 is the fuel cut and 6250 6300 is where my Redeye shifted stock.

Well, it's more complicated than is obvious unfortunately. Yes 6500 is absolute cut off. However the shift is set to 6300 RPM for upper gears (a little sooner for lower gears like 1 and 2).

However, depending on what drive mode the car is in, the cutoff is 6350 and if the car thinks it's approaching that RPM it will cut early. Had this happen in my 2016 Hellcat when I was working on trans tuning.

In autostick cutoff is 6500.

 

[Demoniccat]

I was asking Curt about it and he said this:
"I'm almost positive that the hiccup is torque management. It's probably fuel cut. Get me a log of it and I can confirm for you."

I won't be able to track my car for awhile, but when I do I was going to send Curt a couple logs. However, I haven't been able to confirm if my car is doing this or not. I haven't noticed a hiccup from racing it last year, but it's possible it's there and I'm not feeling it. I went from a 15' M6 to my 19' A8 Redeye and the difference between shifts was night and day.

Also went 17 M6 to RE, but totally different animal, granted the M6 might be capable of delivering more trq and HP than the regular hellcat A8. But No human can shift as fast as the m/s shifts A8 can deliver. The pcm and Tcm integration must be complex. But that being said it should be solvable without putting a chastity belt on the new flagship SRT car. If I was at cooperate I would issue a order to resolve it before the the RE gives SRT a black eye. After all the last thing you want to do is alienate your loyal customer base that will be back if they keep delivering. They have to be aware of the mounting frustration. Possibly they are working on it now and have given a gag order in the interim of a software patch.

 

[Speedy!]

Is it possible they neutered it a bit to not step on the Demon's toes?

 

[MaxCarnage]

Is it possible they neutered it a bit to not step on the Demon's toes?

It's very possible. That or they did it on purpose to try and save the transmission or something else from breaking and costing them money. Pretty sure that's why they give us stock tires that do nothing but burnouts, to protect the rear end/driveshaft from failing more often.

 

[MaxCarnage]

I can confirm that my car was shifting around 6300 as well with my rolling pull logs. What speedy recommended we pay attention to on logs (HP Tuners) is a channel called throttle torque source. It should read "pedal". Mine was reading Pedal, ESP (traction control in track mode?), and EXT Trans in various locations on the log (especially with tire slip). My log isn't a great source unfortunately because it is limited by the OEM crap tires and me doing a rolling pull, NOT a track pull. However, that said if anyone logs check that channel. Also if anyone knows what "EXT Trans" means under throttle torque source, I'd like to know.

I also want to add that I did about 5 pulls in total on 3 different days. Only 1 pull was showing any STKR (1 degree) around 4400 rpm shifting from 3rd to 4th with the same 93 pump still in the tank.

 

[Demoniccat]

1 year and 4 months later the original question in my head circles back, would I have been better off taking the extra 11k and mod what I had at the expense of voiding warranty, or going for new with more Power, added revs, MORE ROBUST DRIVE TRAIN. ie: engine internals, torque converter capable of more torque, drive shaft, rear end cv axle shafts. And add power chiller. 11K. if the drive train was capable of handling more torque why is it acting like it’s in protect mode and not allowing the drive train to take advantage of what it was engineered and marketed for. This forum has been waaaay cool using very positive attitude yet not a hint of we are aware of it, looking into it and so forth. Usually Customer care interjects before it gets to this situation, gag order there as well. I still remain optimistic there may be a resolution and you just can’t put it out there, but damn throw us a life line the list of people with disappointments is getting longer and people in the market for a RE with powerdallars incentive are trolling these sites fishing for feedback, not wise to scare the fish away. Overall happy with the car, but take the chastity belt off.

The answer to the the original question is if Dodge won’t respond or make a legitimate attempt to resolve it I would vote on take the 11k and go to town on mod. The car was pitched as being more capable more robust driveline.

It's very possible. That or they did it on purpose to try and save the transmission or something else from breaking and costing them money. Pretty sure that's why they give us stock tires that do nothing but burnouts, to protect the rear end/driveshaft from failing more often.

Always thought the same thing if you can’t get the power to the ground you have basically inserted a power limiting devce, slip clutch like on a pto shaft rather than a sheer bolt protecting the whole drive train, they know exactly how much power it can take and how many stress cycles. They have been at it since 2015 with lots of testing and many cats sold and able to evaluate broken parts at service departments returned for repair.

 

[Maxboost]

I can confirm that my car was shifting around 6300 as well with my rolling pull logs. What speedy recommended we pay attention to on logs (HP Tuners) is a channel called throttle torque source. It should read "pedal". Mine was reading Pedal, ESP (traction control in track mode?), and EXT Trans in various locations on the log (especially with tire slip). My log isn't a great source unfortunately because it is limited by the OEM crap tires and me doing a rolling pull, NOT a track pull. However, that said if anyone logs check that channel. Also if anyone knows what "EXT Trans" means under throttle torque source, I'd like to know.

I also want to add that I did about 5 pulls in total on 3 different days. Only 1 pull was showing any STKR (1 degree) around 4400 rpm shifting from 3rd to 4th with the same 93 pump still in the tank.

That’s where mine had knock during tuning. I think we chalked it up to false knock after some race gas tests.

 

[DGatzby]

@Speedy! and @DRAGRCR what do I need to log it? Between next Monday and the following Monday both at BIR on the long course, I can log the screaming hell out of this in Track Mode and without any tires slipping. At WOT over and over again through all the gears including the very top of 6th.

 

[DRAGRCR]

X

 

[MaxCarnage]

HP Tuners VCM Suite has been designed to work with Microsoft Windows® 7 or newer.
Windows 10 is the recommended operating system.
Minimum

• 2 GHz CPU
• 4 GB RAM
• Microsoft Windows® 7 or better
• Microsoft .NET Framework 4.6.1 or higher
• USB Port

Personally I don't like to get minimum specs when running programs, you can run into issues. So I'd shoot for stats above minimum and you should be fine. I also dedicated a laptop (notebook) pretty much for tuning to minimize loading too much onto my notebook. I like to run a SSD hard drive for fast boot up and hard drive speeds.

I bought a used HP notebook 8 core 2.6 GHZ CPU, 8GB Ram, 128GB SSD HD (I don't need much HD space, program isn't very large). The program runs very well without flaw. You should be able to spend $400 or less on a decent used notebook/laptop. I prefer notebook size for ease of use in the car.

 

[NJ_Redeye]

Ron,
I went back through my videos. made them public
Use these if you need.
3 perspectives of the same race- 2 2019 Redeyes, the hiccup is audible, and from the rear perspective you can see my car dip noticeably



youtube1

youtube2

Youtube3

 

[DGatzby]

Thanks for the info Ron. Holy shit, I guess I better not bring up a quick $1k expense now. Too many tires are in the garage and need used first! I want to talk with more of you folks before I choose my tuner in the future. On Monday we will pull up the acceleration graphs and have a peek of what it does at the shifts, along with listening close at the corresponding videos. I’ll have the high speed GPS giving us speeds and the lateral/lineal acceleration numbers at about 10/sec. We may play around a bit with a ‘16 HC that will be there. I believe he is stock except for a intake and lots of weight off, but we may get some good info. I know we will see lots of rolls from about 70-160+ comparisons with Z06’s and a ZR1 or two also, because it is their club track day. Who knows maybe a Mustang may even show up. Better chance of that a week from the coming Monday when I attend a “school day” up there. If it keeps up with and/or pulls on that stuff, I will have a hard time complaining. It seemed to keep with the Z06’s two weeks ago, but I don’t believe we have seen an upgraded ZR1 yet. Some will be there Monday and I know my old HC would keep up with them.

 

[DRAGRCR]

XX

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[Speedy!]

Mike is good and detailed which I like about him. Like any good tuner for this platform he stays swamped so you will need to exercise some patience with responses from him though. Just is what it is. His email sig will be pretty accurate on how far behind he is.

 

[TommyPierson]

Hey @Speedy!

Can you share your Vcm scaners layout and channel file. I’m going to call Mike also and see if he can fix this also.