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Stellantis strike

Bobo

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The government EPA mandates for electric cars and higher cafe standards is killing the auto industry. Every car manufacturer is bleeding cash and the unions are now afraid of losing their jobs because it takes less manpower to assemble these cars. Manufacturers won't take it and will move their operations to where labor costs are cheaper. They need to wake up to the inevitable and learn how to code just like those elites in the government tell the coal miners and folks in the gas industry. Then listen to them bitch about how they are moving their jobs out of the country.

Don't forget about the investors that have bought stock in the company. Those whiny employees could have invested too, but they just want another welfare check for the easy work they do or the lack of it ! :mad: 4 day workweek but get paid for 5 in what world do they live in ? Sounds like they would be happier living in a communist society but then they would just find something else to bitch about.
Kiss my ass!! You don’t know what we do! If it’s so easy why don’t people go the work?! We hire 50 and there’s 2 left at the end of the week!
I’ve been hearing this same line of crap for the last 30 years!

If all you’re gonna go is start crap and put down the workers then go away!
 


Bobo

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The UAW feels they’re entitled and normal rules shouldn’t apply to them. Always have. The bigwigs will always make more than they should and the top tier UAW members are making decent money. But it’s never enough. Now the temps and 2nd tier? Yeah they’re getting boned and part of that was so that in previous contracts the top tier workers could get theirs. Lots of hard workers in the UAW but lots of dead weight too. And it’s the dead weight that gives the UAW the bad rep. I agree the hourly deserve raises but be careful what you ask for because past performance doesn’t guarantee future returns. In a few years when all the profits have dried up because of money losing EVs they’ll be looking for another bailout. Hopefully both sides can iron out a deal and be happy.
That’s why it’s called negotiating! You don’t ask for what you will settle for your shoot for the moon! No one in the actual membership that I know of thinks that way! There are a few but there are a few asshats in profession.
Why does everyone seem to think we are a bunch of whiners that don’t do anything?!! You have no idea what we do!
If you can’t add something to this thread other than bitch about how we don’t deserve anything then keep your opinions to yourself and if that pisses you off then your the ones I’m talking to!
The world takes all kinds of people to function and those that seem to be better than others need yo get their heads out if their own asses and realize you’re no better than anyone else!
If the shoe were on the other foot and this was you! What would you want!!!???? That would be different, right?! Why??? It’s always different when it’s you!
 


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That’s why it’s called negotiating! You don’t ask for what you will settle for your shoot for the moon! No one in the actual membership that I know of thinks that way! There are a few but there are a few asshats in profession.
Why does everyone seem to think we are a bunch of whiners that don’t do anything?!! You have no idea what we do!
If you can’t add something to this thread other than bitch about how we don’t deserve anything then keep your opinions to yourself and if that pisses you off then your the ones I’m talking to!
The world takes all kinds of people to function and those that seem to be better than others need yo get their heads out if their own asses and realize you’re no better than anyone else!
If the shoe were on the other foot and this was you! What would you want!!!???? That would be different, right?! Why??? It’s always different when it’s you!
Not sure what you’re taking as criticism? The UAW has always felt entitled and I think I can speak to that after having supervised and managed in a Mopar plant for over 20 years. My experience with skilled trades is that most are great people but they’re overtime whores and not happy unless they offered 12 hours a day 7 days a week. So yes I know what goes on
 


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You know why temp workers were brought in? Because attendance was so bad on Monday/Friday that they had a hard time running the operation. The UAW has no one to thank but themselves for that.
They have an attendance problem for multiple reasons and a big one is the 60 hour work week, every week!! They are schedule six 10-1/2hr shifts every week 50 weeks a year!
Trades work seven 8 hr shifts which are usually 10 or 12 hr shifts! Last week before strike I work five 12s and two 10hr shifts s as bd three 12s the week of the strike!
Yes part of this is the UAW caused and a big part is also the Federal Government with their FMLA crap!! There needs to be severe issues to qualify for FMLA because it is so abused! There is nothing anyone in the UAW or the corporation can do about it by law!
Lastly it got worse after the bullshit lock downs no one wants to Fuckin work! Government handing out our tax dollars like candy to sit at home and do nothing and play video games! Made lazy assholes lazier!
 


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Not sure what you’re taking as criticism? The UAW has always felt entitled and I think I can speak to that after having supervised and managed in a Mopar plant for over 20 years. My experience with skilled trades is that most are great people but they’re overtime whores and not happy unless they offered 12 hours a day 7 days a week. So yes I know what goes on
I guess I take it that way because I’m not a union person! I made my way in the real world got almost 30 years! This is my first union job and I still feel like my area and my job is MINE. I take ownership of what I’m responsible for just like you would in a non union shop and I take lack of performance or mistakes personally! The people you describe font give a shit about anything or if the plant even runs or puts out a good product!
I did say there are people like that but not most! Most don’t feel or act like they’re entitled! Yes there are some ot whores but once again there are some that work that much because the work load the company gives us! My dept is half what it was 4 years ago and we have more equipment to take care of and make spare parts for! If I don’t make spare parts the line shuts down snd if you’ve work in assembly you know how much management freaks out if the line shuts down!
 


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Need 2 go dare 2 understand dat.
 


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Kiss my ass!! You don’t know what we do! If it’s so easy why don’t people go the work?! We hire 50 and there’s 2 left at the end of the week!
I’ve been hearing this same line of crap for the last 30 years!

If all you’re gonna go is start crap and put down the workers then go away!
For your information, I've been a union member twice for different unions and that is about all I could stand. Your union stewards and upper management manipulate the membership into going on strike, all the while, they are getting their full pay and while you're on strike you get a paltry sum to survive on and stand on the picket line. While ,they are inflaming the membership into voting for a strike. The membership isn't taking into consideration anything other than what the union wants them to think. In my opinion they are just a bunch of sheep !

Sure, there are some that take their jobs seriously, but from my observations they only do 80% and wait for someone else to pickup the other 20%. They only know how to do one job and never try to excel beyond that position.

Obama the great community organizer used the same tactics when he was president. Inflame the masses to get them to do what he wanted.

Most union members don't have the drive to do more than what is expected from them. Then they will sit on their asses until they are needed. Clean up after themselves OHHH heavens NO ! call the janitor so he has something to do.

At one time Unions had their place, but that time has passed now they are just a bunch of overpaid whinny bitches.
 


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They have an attendance problem for multiple reasons and a big one is the 60 hour work week, every week!! They are schedule six 10-1/2hr shifts every week 50 weeks a year!
Trades work seven 8 hr shifts which are usually 10 or 12 hr shifts! Last week before strike I work five 12s and two 10hr shifts s as bd three 12s the week of the strike!
Yes part of this is the UAW caused and a big part is also the Federal Government with their FMLA crap!! There needs to be severe issues to qualify for FMLA because it is so abused! There is nothing anyone in the UAW or the corporation can do about it by law!
Lastly it got worse after the bullshit lock downs no one wants to Fuckin work! Government handing out our tax dollars like candy to sit at home and do nothing and play video games! Made lazy assholes lazier!
Yes FMLA is a serious problem. And as I stated in my previous post there are many hard working UAW members but there’s also the scumbags the union protects. There is contract language, as I’m sure you’re aware, that states how much forced OT can be used but I’m not sure how it applies to your plant. All I can say is good luck and hopefully they’ll come to a quick agreement everyone can live with.
 


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Well, everybody can read da saame article and get 14 different opinions. Datz good. Now, question 2 ya. Wood you keep production wurkers involved and whore deevise robotics 2 dew da same job? With no worker's comp, no retirement, no union dewz?? On and on. Da package with human wurkers is long. Beein an electronic engineer is fast and cheaPER. As an owner, watt wood you pick? It's all human ass pect of natural thinkin. The UAW haz just gotten 700 wurkers fired with no negocee ations. It's their plant, and day can do as day wish. Sorry, bean dare dun dat.
Ford can't get their commercials on da TV fast enough. I wood.
Ralph Gilles said it on camera during EV day they designed all the cars together to lower development cost during their 2 hour Livestream. During the dare forward Livestream, they said out their mouths they would software lock cars for billions in additional revenue.
And they been introducing robots into production for years, nothing is new. Even Tesla has thousands of employees at their plant and it's highly automated
 


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For your information, I've been a union member twice for different unions and that is about all I could stand. Your union stewards and upper management manipulate the membership into going on strike, all the while, they are getting their full pay and while you're on strike you get a paltry sum to survive on and stand on the picket line. While ,they are inflaming the membership into voting for a strike. The membership isn't taking into consideration anything other than what the union wants them to think. In my opinion they are just a bunch of sheep !

Sure, there are some that take their jobs seriously, but from my observations they only do 80% and wait for someone else to pickup the other 20%. They only know how to do one job and never try to excel beyond that position.

Obama the great community organizer used the same tactics when he was president. Inflame the masses to get them to do what he wanted.

Most union members don't have the drive to do more than what is expected from them. Then they will sit on their asses until they are needed. Clean up after themselves OHHH heavens NO ! call the janitor so he has something to do.

At one time Unions had their place, but that time has passed now they are just a bunch of overpaid whinny bitches.
That may be to some extent but not all of us are like that! Like I said earlier this my first job with a union. I did my apprenticeship and earned my way until I was maxed out in my local area on my own ambition and continue with that same ethic and always will regardless of what the union wants. I do support getting the lowered paid “temps” up to level as they work the same as regular ft members, I also think it’s bs that we’ve only gotten a total of 6% wage increase over the last four years because of corrupt union leaders and greedy management. It’s hard for anyone to convince me otherwise on this! Our wage should have at least kept up with inflation.
 


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Ford president Farley explaining why the legacy OEM's may die. The absolute stupendous Paradym change this represents for the legacy automakers is astonishing. It is a major reason they are bleeding cash AND jumping the price of ICE to pay for it.

AND Tesla and the Chicoms have a 30% or more wage cost advantage. The OEM's better figure this shit out before the ICE bans or they become bit players. The EU looks like it is going to tariff the Chicoms, interesting what they will do about Tesla.

Ford CEO explains why Tesla's vertical integration strategy WINS #tesla #tsla #ford #evs #investing - YouTube
 


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That may be to some extent but not all of us are like that! Like I said earlier this my first job with a union. I did my apprenticeship and earned my way until I was maxed out in my local area on my own ambition and continue with that same ethic and always will regardless of what the union wants. I do support getting the lowered paid “temps” up to level as they work the same as regular ft members, I also think it’s bs that we’ve only gotten a total of 6% wage increase over the last four years because of corrupt union leaders and greedy management. It’s hard for anyone to convince me otherwise on this! Our wage should have at least kept up with inflation.
I don't see how anyone can complain about only getting 6% pay increase over the last 4 years. That is entirely the union negotiators fault, agreeing to those terms for the existing contract period. Whereas, unionized members on average make 35 - 40% more than the average worker performing a similar job.

Temp or part-time workers are there to stave off the slow times and helps keep the permanent workers employed. They shouldn't have the same wages or benefits the full-time employees receive that's why it's temporary. The companies can weed out those shitty temp employees, the unions protect those same under performing full-time employees that are slackers from the get go to keep them from being terminated.

Contractors that hire union workers hire from the union hall bench, when they need extra help to fulfill a contract, If they don't turn out to be quality employees they'll send them back to the bench. I don't believe the UAW has a bench the automakers can hire temps from. So, if they get a slacker for an employee the union will protect them from getting fired.

I can name multiple unionized companies that are no longer in existence. because the unions squeezed them to the point they weren't profitable and they relocated their operations elsewhere. Now those greedy union members don't have a job at all. Complaining how they lost their jobs because the company closed down and moved it oversees or where people actually appreciated having a job. I've been there, so I don't have any sympathy for union workers.

How do you like paying $5- $6 for a box of Kellogg's cereal ? Their unions have squeezed them into charging an exorbitant price for a box of sugar and grain. Airport Authority have unionized laborers just as well have hired the panhandlers off the street corner to get a better employee. Government unions get just about anything they want in their negotiations, Congress will just pass those benefits onto the taxpayer too.
 


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I don't see how anyone can complain about only getting 6% pay increase over the last 4 years. That is entirely the union negotiators fault, agreeing to those terms for the existing contract period. Whereas, unionized members on average make 35 - 40% more than the average worker performing a similar job.

Temp or part-time workers are there to stave off the slow times and helps keep the permanent workers employed. They shouldn't have the same wages or benefits the full-time employees receive that's why it's temporary. The companies can weed out those shitty temp employees, the unions protect those same under performing full-time employees that are slackers from the get go to keep them from being terminated.

Contractors that hire union workers hire from the union hall bench, when they need extra help to fulfill a contract, If they don't turn out to be quality employees they'll send them back to the bench. I don't believe the UAW has a bench the automakers can hire temps from. So, if they get a slacker for an employee the union will protect them from getting fired.

I can name multiple unionized companies that are no longer in existence. because the unions squeezed them to the point they weren't profitable and they relocated their operations elsewhere. Now those greedy union members don't have a job at all. Complaining how they lost their jobs because the company closed down and moved it oversees or where people actually appreciated having a job. I've been there, so I don't have any sympathy for union workers.

How do you like paying $5- $6 for a box of Kellogg's cereal ? Their unions have squeezed them into charging an exorbitant price for a box of sugar and grain. Airport Authority have unionized laborers just as well have hired the panhandlers off the street corner to get a better employee. Government unions get just about anything they want in their negotiations, Congress will just pass those benefits onto the taxpayer too.
Would you be happy with only 6% TOTAL over 4 years? Not 6% per year! For me personally the last 10 years I make just about $4hr more than I did when I started over a decade ago! Would you be happy about that if it were you knowing it’s because of corrupt union leaders and greedy management! Bet if the shoe was on the other foot you would agree with us. I also bet you say it’s ok for sports figures to negotiate hundred million dollar contracts but we’re not allowed to negotiate our value?!!
You’ve obviously made up your mind that we are all greedy, lazy, whining babies so I’ll just leave this portion of the conversation!
I don’t agree with you!
 


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Would you be happy with only 6% TOTAL over 4 years? Not 6% per year! For me personally the last 10 years I make just about $4hr more than I did when I started over a decade ago! Would you be happy about that if it were you knowing it’s because of corrupt union leaders and greedy management! Bet if the shoe was on the other foot you would agree with us. I also bet you say it’s ok for sports figures to negotiate hundred million dollar contracts but we’re not allowed to negotiate our value?!!
You’ve obviously made up your mind that we are all greedy, lazy, whining babies so I’ll just leave this portion of the conversation!
I don’t agree with you!
The brutal brutal reality is that it doesn't matter what is "fair". The legacy automakers are in for a fight for their survival because of the Green mandates. If the UAW gets anything close to what they are demanding, there will be dramatically fewer UAW members following that ratification. The wage disparity is already almost an insurmountable hurtle, the OEM's have raised the price of new so much that the people that can buy their shit gets smaller by the day and we have a recession knocking on the door.

So many companies the UAW and Teamsters ran out of business because they had no fucks to give, looks grim for the legacy 3 in my opinion. When ICE half ton trucks get mandated out of existence, they're toast.
 


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Would you be happy with only 6% TOTAL over 4 years? Not 6% per year! For me personally the last 10 years I make just about $4hr more than I did when I started over a decade ago!

On what base pay? (rhetorical, don't answer)

Mine hasn't changed at all! For a lot of reasons, primarily because 10 years ago the market supported my rate AND demand was high, now neither are true. Arguably, this allowed for a rate above value??

I'm now facing the reality of possibly needing to cut my rate (this is on the consulting side of life, which I hopefully am just giving up altogether anyway, because of what some already know)

Likewise, last year (two years ago?) my wife took a 10% cut to keep her job in medicine.

Maybe this doesn't apply in your case, or the union's, but lack of raises alone are not the whole story.

If you're making $20/hr, I have some sympathy for you, if you're at 40, or 50/hr, I have less.

Mixed up in this whole mess are these posted profits while also claiming they are on the verge of collapse?
 


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Just to add, our merit increase pool (my departments' budget) is typically 2.5 - 3% per year. Twice it was 0%. So I get to spread 3% across all of my employees when there's a merit budget at all. No career is immune to this stuff. Our CEOs make millions and of course got their bonuses and raises when everyone else got 0.
 


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Started out in the union at the company I worked for and through 36 years, was lucky (or unlucky?) enough to get 10 steps higher before retiring. Our company had approximately 21,000 employees and was about 85% unionized. Seen so much good and bad stuff happen over the years that I could write a book (although few would want to read it). I worked with a few union leaders that had their act together and had some sense of reason and encouraged their membership to do their jobs well. The ones I disliked were the ones that protected terrible employees and ones that fought for things that added so much inefficiency to our business, that it was difficult to be competitive and make money. Our business was not one that was subsidized by the government. If your EBITDA was tanking, it was on you. It's easy to look at what some CEO makes in salary and bonuses and say you should be rewarded in lock step (%). What most people don't realize is that publicly held companies dance to a different tune than privately held companies due to their responsibility to return value to their shareholders and also that your cost of labor is a crucial part of that equation. I always wanted my employees to make good money and be able to take good care of their families. It benefits you and the company to retain good talent and workers for many reasons including lower turnover and having the experience necessary to beat your competition. There are a lot of good thoughtful posts on both sides of this issue and it all comes down to perspective and the experiences we have/had over the years. I've known 7 CEO's and worked directly with 3 and they have an unbelievable amount of responsibility and most earned the right to get where they were. I worried less about their compensation than I did about the direction they were taking the company long term. I've seen good ones, one great one, and a couple of terrible ones. The best ones can position a company for long term growth and you can love or hate them, but they can make a tremendous impact through setting high standards, innovation and staying competitive. The company I worked for went through 2 reorganization bankruptcies and ultimately a chapter 7, locking the doors. The brands we had were nationally recognized and were split up and sold to 2 companies (non-union). They changed the business model to warehouse delivery vs DSD and re-invented the brands through additional innovation and a streamlined approach to market. Prior to chapter 7, the union leaders would not budge on anything and ultimately cost over 20,000 employees their jobs with most not finding anything that paid as well after because they didn't have the educational background or were above the age when employers want to hire you. Age discrimination is a real thing. Our CEO (not a great one) went on to be a CEO of another company. One of our top brands was just flipped to another company for 12 times what they originally paid for it. My point: Good brands usually live on. Bad decisions have consequences. Assuming that both sides of the big 3 come to an agreement, it will be interesting to see where these companies end up long term. If EV's take much longer to penetrate the U.S. market than expected (which I believe will be the case), then they will be backed into a corner concerning profitability based on vehicle price, lack of ICE vehicles, possible loss of government subsidies, etc. It takes time to see the overall damage. I have a GMC, the HC and an SUV that are all over 5 years old and have no plans to run out and buy new ones. Good luck to all!
 


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dont it just figure
i have three cars here that need programming ,i have a guy who comes to my shop that does it for me and gm and ford are both off line :mad: so i cant get these vehicles finished
i guess the it guys are part of the union's as well
 


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You know why temp workers were brought in? Because attendance was so bad on Monday/Friday that they had a hard time running the operation. The UAW has no one to thank but themselves for that.
Oh I get that for sure!

Everything I hear about both sides in the News for what is happening, I think Beware of what Biden Loves!
The money always circles back to his New "Gr$$n deal feathering his pockets.

God Bless Our Kids.... this old people's government has to go!
 


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Just to add, our merit increase pool (my departments' budget) is typically 2.5 - 3% per year. Twice it was 0%. So I get to spread 3% across all of my employees when there's a merit budget at all. No career is immune to this stuff. Our CEOs make millions and of course got their bonuses and raises when everyone else got 0.
Yup.
I see it when the payroll entries are done.

Its shit but it is what it is.

What is worse is when a bonus is paid out and many people were let go.
"Got the numbers right"
 


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